Man Utd flop makes Maguire look like a £200m star; plus ‘pathetic’ Arteta and his ‘ridiculous sense of victimhood’

Manchester United flop Antony makes Harry Maguire look like a £200m player, while the Mailbox is annoyed at ‘pathetic’ Mikel Arteta’s reaction to Newcastle’s controversial goal against Arsenal.

Send your thoughts to theeditor@football365.com…

Sancho and the players vs Ten Hag
Don’t particularly care (I’d like him to stay tbh), but thought I’d share my thoughts on United and Ten Hag.

I’d put it down to something really simple. Presumably the players are generally mates – especially the England boys – with Sancho.

Nobody really understands why Sancho has been treated as he has, and you could probably include van de Beek in this too.

In companies I’ve worked for, when a billy big bollocks manager comes in and tries to make an example of someone in the team who’s done little to no wrong, the team just rebel. It’s natural.

Ten Hag has done nothing at all to earn the right to treat anybody at United poorly and seems to not even align with the character he is.

It appears, imo, that he’s feeling imposter syndrome, is trying to disguise it by trying to make examples of players.
Rob, Worthing.

Antony, the terrible
It is well known that Maguire is overpriced at £80m. But if Antony is worth £85m, then Maguire is worth £200m. That guy is terribly terrible. I have never seen a winger as useless as Antony. He makes the £72m Arsenal wasted on Pepe seems like a bargain.
Azeez

That denied goal
I’ll assume correctly that VAR will come into question once again following the McTominay denied goal. They told us it was black or white with offside, penalties were a grey area. We now have subjective offsides. My lord, but at least we can now lay to rest the argument on unfair calls levelling out. That surely has to be the Onana incident levelled out The problem isn’t the technology, it’s the incompetent referee’s using it.  A contributor this week was ranting about fans having opinions against referee’s because referee’s apparently are more knowledgeable about the game and the rules and so should not not be questioned. That’s one of the dumbest mails ever posted.  I’ll repeat, the problem isn’t the technology, it’s the EPL morons and how they choose to use it. When the EPL chose to start using EPL, they made it so complicated, everybody hated it, but VAR wasn’t being used like that in the Bundesliga or Serie A, so the FA purposely complicating things. Like I said earlier, the incompetent referees either don’t know how to use simple technology, or are trying to kill it by purposely misusing it.

VAR I predict, isn’t going to be dropped by FIFA or UEFA. The EPL implementers of VAR try to be cleveror(not sure if cleveror is a word), than the rest on the rest of the world, and always come of short. I do wonder, are the now taking away tactical football, on a free kick? Attacker usually try to pull the line back by intentionally being offside, just as a threat, so if freekicks is swung in, offside player jumps, it should now be officially called offside?

The EPL referee’s are making a mockery of the game, the FA is making a mockery of the game and instead of using VAR to advance the game, they continue to misuse it as a way to annoy fans. I think they have job security issues, the kind of issues people have with AI, instead of using and advancing the new tool , they discredit it.

Final point, if the EPL teams manage to drop VAR, they will be putting themselves at a disadvantage, by not being familiar with the rules of football with VAR in Europe. EPL should just get ref’s with an attitude of progress, not these current crop of dimwits.
Dave(Man U a still s**t), Somewhere

Clear and obvious
Four minutes of slow motion, multiple angles and, to quote the rule, ‘subjective’ decisions. Finally spotted that clear and obvious error though.

Huge improvement in the sport though.
Ryan, Bermuda

What a “clear and obvious” VAR discussion would sound like…

McTominay GoalRef: “Decision Goal, unless there is a clear and obvious error”
VAR: “Wait one”
VAR: “Offside too close to call, advantage attacker”
VAR: “Some contact in the area, no obvious foul.”
VAR: “Go with on-field decision”

Newcastle Goal
Ref: “Decision Goal, unless there is a clear and obvious error”
VAR: “Wait one”
VAR: “Ball out of play is too close to call. Go with on-field decision”
VAR: “Possible foul on defender. Not an obvious error. Go with on-field decision”
VAR: “Offside unclear, advantage attacker”

VAR: “Go with on-field decision”

To state the obvious point – if you can’t see it clearly, it’s not clear or obvious.
Matthew (ITFC)

Arteta’s moaning and groaning
Arteta’s moaning and groaning after Newcastle’s win was both hilarious and pathetic, simultaneously. Its just a game of football and I think his rant was over the top. The reality is if you want to win, go and score goals. Dont moan and groan when your teams score is 0.

Man city have shown that draws wont cut it, you need to convert them to wins. 3 points trumps 1. Further, Arteta is just an average manager although I fear he believes he is one of the elite. The goalkeeper situation he created, paying mad money for havertz etc. are indicative of his delusion.

Maybe they will get top 4 but I have my doubts. Last seasons Arsenal were more impressive, for me.
Heavy-D, Cape Town

Arsenal didn’t deserve it
I will try and get some level headed thoughts before certain regular mailboxers type their usual rubbish.

We didn’t deserve the win, Newcastle were the better team although a draw would have probably been a fair result. Havertz could have been a red, brunos was a red (and plenty of yellows on top). Let’s call that even. Think the goal doesn’t stand, foul and offside, but I would be celebrating if we had got it.

That said, the defensive work and resilience of Newcastle deserves to be praised. Not many teams will get joy at St James Park. We move on and have some “easier” games coming up.

People will say “oh well they won’t compete now for the title”. Genuinely just happy to be in the conversation and competing rather than being a crisis club. Prefer the agony of losing than the apathy of losing any day.
Rob A (we arent as fun as last season though, Arteta needs to do something with our attack) AFC

Was that it?
Due to an unexpected case of socialising, I missed the second half and subsequent fallout from the Newcastle/Arsenal game, stumbling on it late last night and catching up with MOTD this morning. Listening to the histrionics from Arteta, I was expecting some appalling miscarriage of justice, so colour me surprised when I finally got to see what it was all about.

Is that it, really?

Did the ball go out? Probably not, but maybe. Was Gordon offside? Case not proven at all. Was it a foul, yeah, maybe, both players were running in, we’ve all seen them given and not given. Was there enough to disallow the goal? I don’t see it. I can understand that Arsenal fans might perceive it differently, but the only thing that is embarrassing, a disgrace, excuse me, an absolute disgrace, was the Arsenal manager’s ridiculous sense of victimhood.

Arteta’s rhetoric was excruciating and completely over the top, and he has form here, but this is next level shit. VAR has made some gigantic mistakes lately, and as a football fan I find them really concerning, but this wasn’t one of them. Arguable? Yes. A clear and obvious error? Absolutely not. What a fuss about next to nothing.

I trust the FA will throw the book at him.
Matthew (will the Arsenal fans lose their shit in today’s mail? I am guessing yes.)

Mikel Arteta issues instructions at St James’ Park

Oh dear…
Dear 365,

* Can someone please explain why Arteta decided to line up a Carabao Cup third round team? I thought it was some kind of joke seeing Nketiah, Jorginho and Havertz on the same team sheet?

* Are Arsenal fans going to regale us all with the old classic “injuries” excuse? Because did you lot take a look at the Newcastle injury list?

* If Arsenal had been allowed to play another 500 minutes, do you reckon they would have scored? I’ve never seen a so-called “elite” club so toothless in attack. No quality. Brentford, Brighton and Villa are more incisive. 45 minutes played in the second half and not a single shot on target by Arsenal. Shocking eh?

* Yet again, another fixture where Arsenal present absolutely no attacking threat, no movement up front, no threat on the break outside Martinelli and no options to change things from the bench. £200m spent by the manager and Arsenal still more toothless than a retired prizefighter. How long has this club been crying out for a world class striker? When did RVP leave again? 🤔.

* Arsenal’s first choice striker is profligate when fit (which is less than 50% of the time). Liverpool’s back up attackers are Gakpo and/or Darwin. Citeh have Alvarez (what a steal). Even Newcastle’s Callum Wilson is a significant upgrade on Arsenal’s backup striker – who happens to play an awful lot (since Arsenal’s “first choice” one is eternally injured)

* Eddie Nketiah. Hahahahaha. Can we hear from the people who claimed it was ok to play a season with this guy? Funny how that only gets rolled out after a home stroll against Sheffield United eh! I think he’d be a great signing for Sheffield United mind you. That hat-trick can’t have done his chances of a move any harm. He will be lethal for them next season. Just imagine your team desperately seeking an equaliser and your manager subbing you off with 10 minutes to go. For a midfielder. Ok.

* Btw. Good idea to bring Odegaard on at 3-0 down in a dead game on Wednesday at West Ham. Losing him in the process for a crucial PL fixture. The exact same thing that happened last season with Arteta risking Saliba in a pointless situation against Sporting Lisbon. He was out for the season and we know the rest (legendary bottle job etc). Arteta’s management of player workload is abysmal. He doesn’t seem to learn.

* Oh Havertz. Isn’t it genuinely hilarious to hear that £65m Havertz “needs time”, as Pep spends £50m on Doku who is new to English football, three years younger and a sensational talent. Oh and Doku’s wages are also far lower than Havertz. Like I said: I never want to hear another whiny Arsenal fan bitch about “Citeh 115 charges/oil money” when Citeh are clearly far more sensible and competent with the cash they do have. Havertz wasn’t terrible yesterday but then again, we can just check the headline stat: zero goals, zero assists, zero chances created, zero shots on target. Nuff said.

* Oh and that Maddison lad looks very decent and I heard he was happy to be in north London. Cost substantially less than Kai “pointless Brexit” Havertz didn’t he? Also I’m lower wages. Actually scores goals and creates chances too. Arteta has mismanaged Arsenal’s finances for a pointless vanity signing, and it’s made the team worse. Stick Maddison or Doku in that side instead of Havertz and see if Arsenal become more incisive. We all know the answer. So there are superior players who cost less in transfer fees, and lower wages – but the Arsenal recruitment team is missing these. What’s the excuse now then?

* Good thing Arsenal got a good spanking in the cup midweek, as they absolutely had to concentrate on losing at St James eh? Elite mentality! 🙄.

* How do you spend £200m on strengthening your squad and somehow end up worse off? It’s genuinely impressive.
red eh? It’s got to be doubly embarrassing to watch Spurs with a PL novice manager, currently looking streets ahead of Arsenal. Embarrassing, given the money spent.

Arteta is a decent coach but forget a title challenge this season. He hasn’t got what it takes to ever make the right decisions to win a title – Klopp on the other hand, does. And Liverpool will present a sterner title challenge this season than Arteta, having spent far less. Arteta can’t be trusted with big fees in my view. Rice gets a pass but then again, was obvious. I’m looking at Havertz, Fabio Vieira, Raya, Zinchenko and yes, Gabriel “Brazilian Balsa wood” Jesus. ALL of those signings seem pointlessly expensive. Still what was it Arsenal fans used to say under Wenger? “It’s impossible to compete with teams spending more than you”
Someone should have a word with Klopp and Postecoglou then…😂🙄
Stewie Griffin (Loving Havertz’ unseen work! Havertz means Havertz)

Dear Ed,

So I’m allowed back in my living room after  that. Apparently it’s a bad example to set to talk like that to the tv….

Sky say that VAR couldn’t get a picture to definitively rule on whether the ball was out for the goal or the offside. Ok. Sure.

I can’t for the life of me see how they’ve not given a foul for the push on Gabriel. Two hands in the back means he can’t get a head on it. This means it drops for the tap in. G Nev claiming Gabriel “throws his legs backwards and makes contact” is parody surely? His body moves like that as a result of the push as he’s trying to head the ball out. Surely this is obvious? Why on earth would he dive in that scenario when he can clear the ball out? G Nev would have blown his nut if that have been Nunez on Varane.

How on earth did Bruno stay on? Wild challenge just before the forearm. Clear red for the forearm on Jorginho. Yellow for booting the ball at Rice from point blank range in anger. Then the actual booking!! Can’t wait for Webb to appear on MNF to explain how it was an optical illusion that Bruno smacked him in the back of the head. No doubt he’ll be given the full Paxman treatment.

Deeply worrying for us that we created so little with so much possession and territory. The pundits talked about getting in the market for a striker. Fair enough, but we were sluggish in moving the ball through midfield. Neither winger beat their man or used the ball well. All three full backs had ordinary games. And exactly who is going to be available anyway? Osimhen? Come on – why would they sell for less than £150m? Toney? The guy hasn’t kicked a ball for months. I thought Havertz (aside from the comically late challenge) was good, especially when switched to the left side of midfield. He got in behind a few times but couldn’t find teammates in the way Xhaka did last year. Maybe if Odegaard had been on the pitch some better angles would have been available. Not quite sure what runs Eddie and Saka were making either.

I still think we’re a darn good side, but teams have learnt to defend better against our method this year. We need to adjust, possibly rotate more, possibly trust Nelson too.

Best
Roscoe P Coltrane

We all know what the single worst decision made in the league is this season. But the officiating in the Newcastle v Arsenal game has to be the worst collection of one sided decisions all season. We can start with the one Newcastle will moan about – Havertz tackle. If he connects with the leading foot I’d agree it’s a red, but he didn’t it’s his trailing tucked leg that takes him out, it’s not pretty at all but rarely if ever to players get red cards for those tackles when the lead leg doesn’t make any contact.

Bruno Guimaraes seems to have free rein to do whatever he wants v Arsenal, this isn’t the first game I’ve seen him make foul after foul and be allowed to by the ref. I actually saw an interviewer ask Howe about his forearm in to Jorginho and say ‘it’s hard to tell if there’s any intent’ how var doesn’t intervene for violent conduct is staggering, for me it’s the worst decision in the game and we haven’t got to the goal yet.

4 potential reasons to rule out the goal, all Arsenal need is the var to side with them on 1 of them and it’s no goal, but they side with Newcastle for all 4. So in order:
1. Ball out of play. We know angles are deceptive and it could have been in play but in these situations the refs re guessing, pure guesswork. So we can let that one go as bad luck for Arsenal
2. The foul. It really is a clear two handed push in the back of Gabriel. How that isn’t given is astonishing
3. Handball. The ball definitely hits Joelintons arm. Who knows what is handballl nowadays so let’s let that one go as another bad luck one for Arsenal
4. Offside. It seems the var couldn’t find an angle to see exactly when the ball hit Joelinton so they couldn’t decide on the offside at all.
Clearly Arsenal didn’t do enough to win the game but they certainly didn’t deserve to have the point robbed from them by that ref. The red card for Bruno changed the entire game if it’s 10v11, it really felt like a classic homer ref in an intimidating atmosphere that the officials were terrified to anger the crowd by giving fouls, yellows and reds to Newcastle and there was ample opportunity to do so.

Finally please let’s put aside lazy comments such as ‘Newcastle wanted it more’ or ‘Newcastle persevered and just found a way to win’ the goal was their first shot on target. Don’t let a shocking ref error change what actually happened in the game. It was a 0-0 game without the ref deciding it in Newcastles favour.
Arteta is absolutely right to be as angry as he was in his post match interview.
Rich, AFC

Hanlon’s razor suggests one ti never attribute actions to massive that are moradequately explained by stupidity. Nonetheless I am going to do exactly that regarding the Guimares incident.

I believe Guinares was not issued a red card 100% because the officials were scared of the reaction from the worked up crowd. The crowd had been in a frenzy ever since the Havertz incident. Although properly given just a yellow,  the crowd did not have the advantage of seeing replays. Other touchy incidents  from both sides stoked the crowd’s fire. I am not saying they feared a violent reaction, necessarily.  They just didn’t want to deal with it. They simply didn’t want to go through 2/3rds of a game having every call and non-call, while Arsenal a man up, being, well, a pain in the ass.

Or it was stupidity,  guess we’ll never know.
David

So Bruno G’s arms clearly push forward (how can one justify this movement of arms?) into the back of Gabriel. They extend forward and everyone speaking about it has agreed he made contact. So, if he did make contact, does it “need to be enough to make him fall to the ground” -as has so stupidly been discussed as a point of reason? Why is that even brought up? If it’s enough to unnaturally distort his intended movement and actions, no matter how slight, it’s a foul because that it not a practical movement i. e. “incidental” – compare this to Saliba legitimately jumping to try to head a ball but “rules are rules” in that scenario?

Unless Gabriel magically feinted moving just at the exact point Bruno’s hand had just barely made contact with his back – which would be some f***ing coincidence if used as rationalization and it’s been agreed by most observers that contact was made – then how is that not a foul? Even the slightest contact – which extending your arms out in that fashion is intended to make which again practically does not help him at all win the ball….did he not make his silhouette bigger to do something that did not help him attack the ball with his head at all the way Saliba’s movement was clearly justified?

If David Luiz can be red carded and given a penalty for accidentally running into someone’s leg while very clearly not intending to do that and accidentally making the slightest of touches I think very purposefully extending your arms in someone’s back intentionally and making any contact should be a foul.

Put it another way – it was much more clear cut than the Holjund foul on Rodri which everyone agreed should have been given. Now in 16 conclusions – and elsewhere in the media everyone wants to act like there was nothing to see there at all.

Still a good win from Newcastle but don’t act like they “deserved” it – that is absurd the xG argument can’t even be used because that data allows for a shot from point blank range that shouldn’t have been allowed, they did not assume ascendancy for as near a long period as we did against City at the end, they capitalized on a good but very transitional and short spell that was ultimately rewarded
by botched refereeing, Saka should have taken that shot across goal which changes the entire discussion about chances created, did any Arsenal fan feel really that threatened by Newcastle? It was a game won by a refereeing decision – plain and simple.

I didn’t even mention Bruno G’s red card that wasn’t.

And it was a bad performance from Arsenal. We should probably stop starting Kai. Honestly, I feel more encouraged than ever that after a total s***show like that – bad performance, horrible refs and away at St. James? 1-0 losses have looked a lot worse.
MAW, LA Gooner

Hi Dave Tickner,

Superlative work on 16 conclusions today.

Can you show me where in the FA rulebook it says that it’s fine to award a contentious goal as long as the defending is “objectively terrible”?

And where in the FA rulebook it says to ignore a shove on a defender, a handball AND an offside if the high-profile new goalkeeper signing has got his positioning wrong?

And Arsenal didn’t look like equalising? Remind me how many non-offside, non-handball, non-foul shots on target beautiful, lovely, free-flowing Newcastle had? By the sounds of it they ran the game, rather than having just one other shot on target in 90 minutes.

And Havertz could have been sent off? On another day, although his tackle certainly wasn’t as bad as Kovacic on Odegaard and Palmer on Jesus, and guess what? Those weren’t reds either! I know the Kovacic decision rightly drew complaints but nobody seemed bothered that Palmer was still on the pitch to score his penalty.

But hey, Arteta can’t complain, at least we’ve had six penalties right? Well the inevitable PGMOL apology we receive on Monday will be our fifth since the start of last season.

I’m glad Arteta finally snapped back at the officiating Arsenal has received for too long but perhaps we need to wait until plucky good news story Newcastle actually get a decision against them before anyone really pays attention.
Ben, AFC

HahaHavertz
The only thing keeping me going as a Chelsea fan is the fact that not only did Arteta force through the £65 Million move for Havertz, but that he keeps playing him.

It’s very funny.
Will Schadenfreude FC (I need all I can get)

Man Utd responders…
So a lot of fans took exception to my email saying fans are to blame.

I’ll clarify that position a little since it was originally hyperbolic.

Sure not all fans are the problem. But when your fans are leaving on 55 minutes because you’re losing, you are the problem. That was roughly 15k man united fans during the 5-0 drubbing you received from Liverpool under ole. That’s a pretty big and representative portion of ‘real fans’ who attend matches.

Even in the darkest days under woy or when we were close to bankruptcy fans didn’t empty the stadium on 55 minutes. In my lifetime that’s never happened at Liverpool. In fact Liverpool fans have often been mocked for still singing you’ll never walk alone at the end of matches where we lost.

Did some react badly to Gerrard almost leaving? Yes. And I condemn those fans for doing that. Nobody should suffer personal attacks because of their job as a footballer. That’s just wrong on all levels.

My email wasn’t about saying Liverpool are better or worse. It was about highlighting your contribution to the problem, and predictably every United fan comment responding to it completely denied they have any part in the issue. That’s the modern United fan, living in denial.

Look at Newcastle, did they hate their owner? Yes. Did they underperform a lot ? Yes. They got relegated and still filled st James park and supported the team. They didn’t hurl racist abuse at their own players when they lost. They didn’t hound their own club legends out of the club…twice! If United got relegated their fans wouldn’t still be supporting the team every week like Geordies did.

If you’re a supporter you support. It’s your only job, it’s the easiest job and you’re (mostly) failing at that. With most clubs the crazy hate fans are a minority. At United that number seems to be the bigger demographic, though not all their fans are that way.

And as for the people saying we need to stop talking about United, imagine if they did? Right now you’re held afloat by international interest paying for all those salaries and transfer fees. If everyone suddenly stopped taking an interest in United you’d be bankrupt in two years. The attention keeps you relevant because your performances aren’t. And of course they criticise, that’s their job. Their job isn’t to be eternal United cheerleaders – that’s YOUR job. It’s another example of your fans (online) blaming everyone except themselves.

Finally someone said my use of Madrid was the example that disproved my point. Madrid were in Barca’s shadow for years with fans turning on every player and manager and they won almost nothing. It took Zidane to criticise them and ask for patience and for them to support the team to get success again, that led to 4 champs leagues. It was the most high profile example proving my point.

Get behind your team. Leave the baseless and stupid criticism to rivals and media, that’s our role..not yours.
Lee