Man Utd were done dirty by VAR. But Ten Hag’s decisions cost them in Copenhagen…

The Mailbox reacts to Manchester United’s latest clusterf***, with Erik ten Hag coming in for criticism over his in-game decisions. Also: plenty of VAR; Mikel Arteta; and Spurs…

Get your views in to theeditor@football365.com…

Ten Hag tide turning?
I’ve struggled to blame ETH for MUFCs struggles so far, certainly feel that there are extenuating circumstances at this club (dated management, players ready to jump ship, poor discipline etc). I’m actually behind his disciplinarian stance, even if you have to break a few eggs.

That being said, his game management has always been suspect. How on earth can you bring off Hojlund as soon as we’re 3-2 down? I know the sub was queued up but surely you have to cancel it. He’s the out ball, won 50-50s and moved play up the pitch all game. Mount came on and was completely ineffective.

To Thursday nights we go…
Zeeshan, Salford

Rashford’s red
And that my dear friends is why VAR is a complete joke. As you all know I’m not a Rashford fan, however that is just not sending off. It’s accidental, no malice as anyone who has watched Rashford knows he hasn’t a fighting or aggressive bone in him.
He steps across looking at the ball and at that moment the opponent steps in just as Rashfords foot is about to touch the ground. It’s unavoidable and some could even argue it was a tad reckless by the Copenhagen player for lunging in. Hey it’s all subjective now right!!

That is the problem with VAR, it cannot keep up with the speed of the game, it isn’t fit for purpose. Mens Elite football is so fast, even the players we class as slow would beat most of us over 100 meters. When you take an incident that happened at 100mph and slow it down frame by frame and give the ref the exact frame of the contact, it can look like a horrible offense. But it really wasn’t. Plus the ref was right there, he saw the entire incident, he was right there and didn’t even give a foul, if that’s a clear and obvious error then he should never ref a game again. If the ref had given a foul, I could accept it more, but he didn’t give anything. Another thing VAR has achieved is to make the ref, who already has a difficult job, second guess themselves and leave it up to VAR, making the ref look totally incompetent, no wonder nobody respects them, the referee is refereed by VAR.

I’m not just saying this because it went against Utd, VAR is a joke in every game it’s used. People saying the Spurs Chelsea game was brilliant, think how much better it would have been without VAR. If the game now needs VAR to make it entertaining then football really is gone. I start a game with a coffee and then have another at half time, I had about 8 coffees during that game, soon as VAR starts checking anything there’s time to put the kettle on.

The penalties, Copenhagen’s yes but against Varane who controlled it further than I can kick it with his arm and still cocked up the clearance, but if it’s given against Maguire, how the heck can he react to that? Varane was also at fault for their 4th with his 10 year old clearance in the build up. Varane is a f**kin terrible player, he can’t run, pass, head or tackle, yet escapes all the criticism that Maguire gets. Maguire gets shunted over from his favoured position to LCB as world class super star Varane can only play RCB and only with a prime Ramos beside him.
Then Utd’s Pen was ball to hand, He jumped and naturally his arm goes up and as he’s coming down so does his arm, to which Maguire heads it onto his arm from about 12 inches. It’s unavoidable, plus it hits Maguire’s hand first.

I’m not just moaning because we lost, I’ve been sayin that VAR is horrible for everyone. Teams no longer just play against the opposition, they are now playing against a team of videographers analysing every part of the pitch, analysing every player, every tackle, every foul, every decision the ref makes. It’s nothing to do with clear or obvious errors its blatant nit picking.

Technology turns most everyday things it touches to shit and football, what a load of shit. I tell ya, technology will be the death of everything, it will be the cause of the next mass extinction . But hey Gen Z, so long as you can make your tiktoks, all is good for you. I’m sure it’s only Gen Z who think VAR is good, you know, the ones who spend more time playing FIFA on the playstation than they have ever spent playing actual real football in the real world.
Hugo

…Just when you think we’re playing well by putting in a proper performance which has been lacking all season, strolling the game 2-0, another bloody frustrating decision goes against us. Had it not, I am confident we would have won that game easily 4 or 5. But no, it wouldn’t be a United game this season without some ineptitude from the officials.

Anyone who thought that deserved a red card has never played the game at any level, is an ABU, or is Robbie bloody Savage. Rashford had eyes only for the ball, had no intention of fouling the guy never mind hurting him and was trying to shield the ball. Yes, it ended up being a clumsy foul but give him a yellow and move on. Note the referee saw the incident at the time and didn’t even blow for a foul! Of course when the VAR then puts pressure on by calling him over to review in super slow mo, it is only going to end one way.

The two penalties were a joke and there were some individual errors near then end. But tired players, who have been up against an extra man for most of the game, will make mistakes. One point is no difference to zero points in our situation, a draw would have felt like a defeat anyway and we would still need to go to Galatasaray and win before likely needing to beat Bayern at home. This could still happen of course, but what started so well was once again ruined by incompetent officiating and, perhaps worse still, tarnished what was an otherwise pleasant birthday.
Garey Vance, MUFC

…One thing I despise about the current application of VAR, is that it promotes players playing the rules and not the game.

In the Chelsea vs Spurs games, it was how the Sterling handball goal would stand if he just squared it and someone else scored. They’ve legalized handballs so long as the person handling it didn’t do it blatantly and they didn’t score, but controlling the ball with your hand to set up a goal is technically allowed.

It’s much like handballs for crosses. An accidental handball from close range can be given. This promotes wingers aiming to hit hands as opposed to trying good crosses. Its an obvious choice when you consider one creates an almost certain goal, and one creates potentially a shot on goal.

Divers have always been a thing, but now players know a bit of handsyness in the box, they go down, and if VAR can/wants to see it, it can be given. Hojlunds hands on Rodri was enough for the ref to give it, despite it being very unlikely he would get to the ball.

Hard challenges can now be labelled as “subjective”. I’ve seen Casimro make a fair tackle, with his foot going over the ball and into the opposition’s leg. Not out of control and nobody was injured, but it was a red. Udogie vs Sterling was an out of control two footed challenge, but because Sterling wasn’t hurt or followed through on, it was a yellow. So theoretically, had Sterling acted injured or stayed in the challenge to get hurt, his team would have gained an advantage. So you can do wrong and get away with it and you can do right and be punished.

Tonight Rashford is sent off for trying to shield the ball, and his foot landing on the defender behind him. No intention, nobody was seriously hurt, Rashford was only looking at the ball, straight red. First time I have ever seen that. I’ve no idea how you coach players not to do what Rashford did.
Then United get a ridiculous penalty for a handball from a defender about a foot from Maguire’s big old head. Like, what are they both meant to do? How is this a deserved advantage for a crime that had no intention, and no ability to stop it or no advantage lost to it?

Football games being decided for these reasons is what takes the heart and soul out of the game. It rewards cheaters, technicalities and those willing to win-at-all-costs. But it does more damage than just that, it rules against honesty, and players being noble. Like not cheating is letting your team down. Think of a player who stays on their feet in the box when going down makes more sense.

I’m still in the “VAR should stay” camp, as I truly don’t think league titles, relegations and finals should not be decided by things such as the “Hand of God”, but if the above persists, then titles will be decided by “VAR missing that won them the league”, or “That was a ‘subjective’ cup final win”.
Calvino (Roony Bardghji: remember this kid)

Read more: Man Utd are now so sh*t that defeat to Copenhagen is praiseworthy

You asked for it
I don’t support a big-league team in the UK. As a Bohs fan in Ireland and a long-suffering fan of Wednesday, I don’t suffer the anxiety of a long-winded VAR call. Mine comes in other ways. But as any football supporter, I love the drama, intrigue, and entertainment of a top-flight game. So I say, get over it.

You all got behind it after that famous rant from that Southampton player (can’t remember his name) called for it. So, yeah, here we are. It’s now the same as it ever was with complaining just with replays. No one will ever be happy. The reason it works for Rugby is because of the respect for refs and the fact it was given time to be integrated. VAR is brought in and 2 minutes later every one is complaining. So get rid of it. and let’s get back to complaining that we need it.

Ta very much
Luke

…I find it strange when people say the clubs and fans demanded VAR and now they have it they can lump it. You made your bed etc. That’s completely wrong. Clubs and fans demanded better decision making and a video referee to ensure the absolute howler decisions pre VAR didn’t happen, and general better officiating on the assumption that being able to view things again would lead to more correct decisions, I’ll admit as fans we probably want everything to be perfect (for our team) but that was never going to happen. So yes clubs and fans voted for VAR but not this version of it.

I think the mail on the areas of consistency in the last 2 high profile games misses the mark – and yes of course Arsenal and Spurs fans will disagree on this.

But saying the tackles made by Havertz and Udogie, and then Guimares and James are the same is simply not accurate. I have rarely seen any player given a straight red for what Havertz did, it wasn’t nice, it was forceful but it isn’t a red – happy to be shown some examples. What Udogie did leading with both feet together off the ground would be the picture definition of a ‘2-footer’ and has always been a red. S

imilarly, people may think James was a red, I don’t, he was challenging for the ball and it wasn’t a swinging elbow, again these rarely get given as reds. Guimares wasn’t challenging for the ball – that’s the key bit- it was a premeditated action to a players head, it was a cowardly move that surely had to be a red card.

By the way, how has the Bruno challenge been forgotten? Lot of focus on the goal but none of the far worse decision. Arsenal fans were annoyed at that one and the foul by Joelinton on the goal, we can accept that a couple of 50/50 calls went against us with the ball out of play and offside.

Ironically if the original onfield decision had been the ball was out then based on everyone’s arguments so far those people would also HAVE to agree that it was out. We don’t know if it is in or out, so we go with the onfield decision – right? So despite what you think you can see you’d have to back the ref. I have a bigger problem that refs are shying away from making decisions because var will save them, but var’s remit seems to be the threshold for overturn is so high that they just go with the onfield decision – so we get the worst of both non-decision worlds.

People also need to do their own research before they just regurgitate what they hear online. Arteta’s quotes about referees saying we need to support them and mistakes happen were not in relation to the Liverpool v Spurs game, when he was asked specifically about that game in the immediate aftermath of that game he had complete sympathy for Liverpool and said he hopes ‘they get what they deserve’.

In an press conference 4 days later he was asked about the idea that certain refs are effectively banned from taking charge of teams they may have wronged it was in direct response to this question where the quotes come from, nothing to do with the Diaz/VAR error. The narrative has been spun by certain sections of the media, just as they were with Klopp’s supposed quotes demanding a replay, and people just run with it.

Arteta has really come in to this league and boiled a lot of people’s p*ss hasn’t he, although only fairly recently which coincided with Arsenal actually being a serious team again. In 3.5 years this is Arteta’s first real rant at a referee after a game. Jurgen Klopp was screaming abuse millimeters from the 4th officials face, countless managers have had touchline bans and countless more are receiving yellow cards for their touchline behavior – but who is the poster boy for the worst behaved manager in the league?

Arteta gets called arrogant for trying to improve his squad, Arteta makes signings that are called vanity projects or gets accused of being ‘too clever’ Anyone else just gets called out for a bad signing – or not at all. Can you imagine the fall out if Arteta had lost 4-1 at home to Chelsea, had 2 men sent off, got booked himself and played a suicidal high line to gift the game? Replace Spurs, Postecoglu, Romero and Udogie with Arsenal, Arteta, Xhaka and Mustafi and think what the story would be – hell even replace it with Man U, Ten Hag, Maguire and Fernandes and think what the story would be!

Micah Richards was absolutely right when he said ‘when it’s Arsenal i just feel everyone wants to lump in for some reason’. I see they’ve given Michael Oliver the next Arsenal match as they know there will be maximum scrutiny on him. Lets see how the self confessed Newcastle fan does in his lose-lose situation.
Rich, AFC

Prem whataboutery 
Let’s just stop and be honest for a minute. Is there a manager in the Premier League who hasn’t complained about a VAR decision? Even darling of the month Ange has had a good moan when on the receiving end of a dodgy VAR decision. For the past two seasons virtually every pundit has had a go at the standard of refereeing, lamenting the exact things that Arteta dared to say at the weekend. Suddenly it’s bad for the game though? Suddenly the wrong man says what everyone’s thinking and he’s out of order? This week it’s Arteta, next week it’ll be Eddie Howe and the mailbox gets inundated with “you weren’t complaining when it happened to us” bullshit. We’re all just suckers continuing to fall for the age old tactic of getting the scum to fight amongst each other when the powers that be take a collective dump on us.

VAR is here and being used right now so we can’t just write mistakes off because they’d have happened before VAR. There are egregious decisions being made that have a real impact on the sport that we love. The referee missing Bruno’s elbow at the weekend isn’t the problem, the problem is that they looked at it, stopped the game to look at it again and came to the conclusion that it was nothing. Literally nothing. Not a free kick, not a talking to, not a yellow (somehow people saying that elbowing a player in the head from behind is a yellow) and not the red it obviously should have been. Nobody can defend that outcome without justifiably saying “yeah but what about Havertz”, literally missing the entire point of complaining about the standards of referees.

The pearl clutching needs to stop too. The neanderthals that attack the ref at Tiddlington Town Under 10s, do you think any of them feel more empowered because Arteta complains about Premier League refs? They hang off his every word? They haven’t been encouraged by Neville and Carragher complaining about decisions since forever? No, no, Mikel Arteta says it’s ok to twat a ref. Honestly, that’s a pathetic take that just shows you want to have a go at a rival and don’t give a solitary about anyone’s safety. But won’t anyone think of how he’s undermined the rules of football? The rules being whatever the ref says and not, you know, the actual rules. To say that a man highlighting that the rules are regularly not being applied is undermining the rules is a massive stretch. To complain about every player cheating every game to actually defend refs is insane. Why wouldn’t you cheat if the refs do absolutely nothing about it? If your burglar alarm only went off once in every ten break-ins you’d get a new burglar alarm.
SC, Belfast (can only think that Wolves fans don’t visit F365)

Out of Fergie’s playbook
I see Mel from Dublin has jumped on Mikel Arteta, accusing him of cracking under the pressure without even a nudge from Sir Alex. Maybe, but here is a Sir Alex tinted alternative view.

Even at their greatest, United would have some garbage games, where for whatever reason, they didn’t turn up. For those who are old enough, remember the grey shirts at Southampton? And this is a good example of my point – after the game, where United were comprehensively outplayed by Southampton – Sir Alex ripped into the shirts, claiming his players couldn’t see each other. Even when Eric Cantona kung fu kicked a fan, Sir Alex was raging at the crowd’s misbehaviour, the stewards for not keeping control… anything but blame the players.

Mikel Arteta was doing the same. Even diehard Arsenal fans have to admit the team were pretty rubbish against Newcastle. One shot on target in 90 minutes is not a performance of champions. But all the media focus is on VAR, Arteta’s rant, the officials, how Arsenal have been cheated (again!). I’m sure behind closed doors Arteta has made it clear that performance wasn’t good enough – in fact, Declan Rice said as much after tonight’s Sevilla game. But because of Arteta, no one is focussing on that Newcastle performance.

Well played, Mr Arteta. Now go on to be as successful as Sir Alex Ferguson and have a stand named after you.
Exiled Gooner (yes I know it’s been a while)

Fun ride to nowhere
Had to respond to Steve (Loving Big Ange) THFC. Loved his email, but couldn’t disagree more.

A bit of history, I lived in London for a while and not being able to get to Anfield very often due to work and costs, I used to go to White Hart Lane very regularly. Absolutely loved it, in the days of Keane and Berbatov etc and it was very enjoyable and highly entertaining. As a neutral, I kind of wanted Spurs to win, (my mates would be in a better mood) but didn’t really care either way but the games always delivered; Spurs would lose 4-1 or win 5-4 – you were always guaranteed entertainment. The fans enjoyed it in the main part although it could quickly turn ugly and after a heavy defeat you would see a few fans lob their season tickets onto the pitch!

Now like everyone else, I love big Ange. He is the antidote to the whining you get from Arteta or Pep, and even (dare I say it) my very own Klopp. I love the way he plays football, but here’s the point, to Steve and similar; you could have easily drawn or won that game against Chelsea (who were attorcious), even with ten men but Ange committed footballing suicide with that high line. Steve says; “Liverpool went down to 9 players and adopted the low block and lost, we did the opposite and had chances to score. High risk and maybe not sensible but we loved it.”

Steve, my man, you still lost! You may have had chances, but the game ended 4-1 to the Blues.

The point of football is to win games and then win trophies and a point is better than nothing. That point could be the difference between Champions League or not, or even the title, or not. Liverpool, at Spurs, were within a whisker of taking a point and gutted not to do so. This is why Rafa Benitez won things despite playing rubbish football. This is why somewhere in his happy retirement Djimi Traore can glance up from his armchair at a Champions League winners medal. I guarantee you, James Maddison will not be doing similar despite being fifty times the player.

And this is why Spurs don’t win anything I’m afraid Steve. And also why Big Ange will ultimately fail, but, and I mean this really genuinely, I know you will enjoy it and I wish you well my friend. You’ll enjoy the ride.
Anon

So Spursy
There seems to be a lot of Spurs fans hanging their hats on their performance after they went down to 9 men as why they won’t be ‘Spursy’ this season, and forgetting that the reason they went down to 9 in the first place is due to pure Grade A Spursiness…

Besides, it’s all very well saying If Bentacur and Son hadn’t missed great chances, they’d have nicked something, but if you do that you have to include all the great chances Chelsea missed. In which case it’d be about 13-3…
Mike Shapland

Strap in
One things that annoys me (for no real reason) watching football is the amount of players in the modern game who sport elaborate white strapping around their wrists due to apparent wrist or hand injuries. Benzema is the undisputed king of the wrist wrap – which apparently is due to an injury he never got around to fixing. But surely some of them must be due to superstition (Luis Suarez has admitted to this in the past – and he even wore coloured strapping to match the kit he was wearing) – or simply because they think it looks cool? The only other explanation is that the game is suffering from a raft of wrist strains that’s fast becoming an epidemic. From watching Villa over the last few years, off the top of my head I can remember Grealish, Mings, Konsa and Buendia (a regular offender) – and in some cases being subbed off, removing the strapping and high-fiving every single person on the bench with a miraculously healed hand.
David Horgan, Dublin

Made for each other
Wondering what the best “Manager/Club” combos might be? Not thinking former legends coming back to manage (lal Big Dunc/Everton). More, what madness would we get with Mourinho managing Newcastle?
Moonaldo, London